Identifying Our Faulty Logic Through Self-Analysis


analize your relationshipSelf-analysis is absolutely required after breaking up with a Borderline Personality Disordered individual. We need to recognize why we were so drawn to them in the first place and what kept us around through all the abuse. How did we maintain such a strong emotional connection for a person who continually showed us they were not worthy of our love.

It’s crazy, the force with which your heart can pull you. Sometimes a logical, reasoning mind is no match for a heart that yearns. Why is it so? What is heart (not in the biological sense), really? Heart is only emotion, but where does this emotion come from?

Without knowledge (mind-work), from where can emotions originate? They cannot come from nothing. Emotion is ALWAYS a reaction, secondary to knowledge. Emotions are generated from the internal analysis and processing of knowledge, logic, and reason. With no knowledge, we have no emotion. So, in an around-about way, emotions are formed from knowledge. I suppose this gives some validity to emotions… phew.

If I have the knowledge that my ex-girlfriend is truly no good for me, why then, am I still emotionally drawn to her. My first thought was the whole garbage-in, garbage-out theory. If I am emotionally drawn to her and that is bad, then my knowledge too, must be bad (or faulty at best). I believe, that this train-of-thought is generally accurate. This is why we must analyze our past relationships with a Borderline; we need to identify our faulty logic.

Comments 34

  • Interesting thoughts, FreeToBe. As ever, I find myself nodding in agreement with you all the way through.

    There are, I believe, many reasons why we are/were attracted to these people and they surely vary between us all. I too had the knowledge that my ex-girlfriend wasn’t good for me but chose to believe (i.e. delude myself that I believed) her claims that my presence in her life was helping her to become a better person.

    I have increasingly put my own behaviour under scrutiny now that the relationship is over, scratching open the scabs and asking myself some hard questions. What was I REALLY thinking? Was I complicit in the deception? Painful as it is to admit, the answer is yes. I convinced myself on some level that it – helping her to – was a noble “cause”. Unhealthy, of course.

    I clung on to the hope that she would change and mellow, and that when she did the relationship would settle and and be permanently wonderful. That hope somehow inspired me. And yet on some level I knew it was unrealistic and unlikely to succeed. But hope springs eternal, doesn’t it? Faulty logic, as you say.

    I managed to talk her round many times, pulling her back from the brink. And this fed the rescuing tendency within me – a tendency I’ve never experienced in any other relationship (I’m in my mid-40s). It took her to trigger it, but I believe my susceptibility was there all along.

    • Hi Simon,

      Mine seemed so helpless when it came to her divorce situation with her ex. He was the most evil, terrible thing in the whole world to her.

      I wanted to show her that I was different, that a man could treat her well. What a joke. Now that the agony of it all has subsided, I can clearly see the role that I played in all this. I was a chump, a fool for her.

      I now see the hell that her ex must have endured for years… My guess is that he did all he could and finally had enough of it from her. I remember her playing a voicemail for me – I wanted to hear the voice of this evil man. He sounded like the calmest, most respectful guy I’ve heard in a long time. Hmmmm…

  • My ex never raged at me or created drama. Until the day she broke up with me, I never felt abused. What makes me suspect she is the quiet Borderline waif type is her childhood background and parental abandonment by her biological father, her romantic history before me and the way she rarely spoke of her exes and yet painted them all black when referring to them, her push-pull behavior in sabotaging the relationship, some of the things she said right before dumping me and during the breakup conversation, and then giving me the silent treatment when I reached out to her and tried to discuss things with her because of how confused I was. These are all evocative of intimacy and abandonment issues.

    I believe that our sickness is going to these dry wells that our exes represent and wanting to pull out water, even though we realize that these wells contain no water. In my own case, I think I miss the relationship terribly because it brought a lot of good and great things in my life when times were good. It should be crystal clear by now that these women are not good or healthy for us and even if rekindling the relationship were possible, it is not in our best interests. Yet we are stuck thinking about them and having difficulty letting go of somebody who treated us like garbage and hurt us on a deep core level. That is our weakness. Posting on this blog and seeking out information on BPD is proof of that. Isolating and overcoming that weakness is the key to a brighter future. Our exes DO NOT hold the key to our happiness, and in some ways our hearts have been tricked into thinking this is so, even after all this time and the amount of painful introspection that the end of these relationships have brought on.

    My ex is not the first woman in my life to have disappointed me romantically or behaved recklessly and carelessly with my feelings. So why do I ache and hurt in a way that no other woman has managed to do? I think part of it is that these relationships tend to fall apart very quickly when true intimacy begins to develop, or when a dynamic within the relationship changes that would lead to it (moving in together, getting engaged, getting married, etc). We so desperately yearn to go back to Eden, but like in the Bible, the way back is barred. They have a way of seeping deep into our souls and getting embedded there. Ejecting them, going through the process of emotionally detaching, and becoming emotionally available again to somebody else is a very long slog, as I am finding out. Thoughts from anybody else?

    • Hi Daniel,

      Mine was sweet-as-pie until the day I found out she was lying and seeing someone behind my back. She was a fine actress – or maybe she wasn’t. Everyone around me saw her for the fraud she was, but I did not see it. I didn’t want to see it – she was the girl of my dreams (as I had made her to be) and no one was going to take that away from me.

  • I believe we return to these dry wells partly out of sheer disbelief that our exes – the ones we loved and invested our hopes in – was so disordered. A romantic attachment to a borderline person is always likely to be a destabilizing experience because of the initial idealization phase that sucks us in and embeds us in the relationship and in the person.

    Because we get no closure and often no empirical proof that our exes have borderline, we find ourselves desperately seeking confirmation of that fact to explain how we ended up in such a maelstrom. In recent times I found myself sliding back towards the denial/disbelief phase. Months had passed and I was desperately needing some form of closure. So I broke the no contact and emailed the ex saying the circumstances of the breakup were weighing heavily on my heart and mind and that I wanted to reach out a hand and talk as friends so we could move on with our lives in a spirit of peace and friendship.

    I chose my words carefully, knowing that her reaction might tell me what I needed to know. I was disingenuous as I never imagined she would want to be friends, knowing that borderlines can seldom maintain friendships with their exes. I also wasn’t at all sure I would have acted further if she had contacted me offering an olive branch. I just had this impelling urge to see if she had softened or whether, as I suspected, the “hater” had permanently turned me to black. I felt the end justified the means.

    The reply was curt and contained zero humanity or empathy. She had moved on and preferred to invest her time and energy in more important matters. She showed no sympathy or interest in my feelings. Though upsetting at the time, this email has helped me greatly. I feel I now have confirmation of her disordered state of mind. It has given me the impetus to begin to move on myself and finally put her behind me. To paraphrase Daniel, I know there is no way back to Eden now – and nor do I want to go there. All of a sudden, I seem to be making progress.

    I wouldn’t recommend this “self-hoovering” to others, but for me on this occasion it provided clarity and insight after the inexplicable end of the relationship. One of the hardest things in these relationships is that we never get finality.

    • Simon,

      About a month after our breakup (which also had little to no closure at all), I emailed her a long email explaining everything that I had felt and the ways in which she deceived me. It wasn’t a letter filled with profanity or anything like that, just an outline of what I witnessed in the end.

      She contacted me desperately, denying everything about the guy and any wrong-doing whatsoever. By the time the conversation was over, I was pretty sure I was the a##hole in all of it. She was so good at what she does – I was no match. She made me think I was the crazy one. It was just more deflection and deception on her part – more lies.

      She too, was very cold and short with me in our last conversation. It was as if I had never existed… No feelings of goodwill or empathy or sadness on her part. She had moved on to the next victim already. When it ends for them, you are the forgotten devil.

      Keep moving on… It does get better – so much better! It’s gonna take time guys, so be patient. You will be better and stronger after this hurt subsides – trust me.

      • I mailed my ex a very nice letter, not a begging and pleading letter, but just reaching out to let her know that I respected her decision if she felt it was best for her, I let her know what she meant to me and how much I cared about and loved her, and that I thought what we had together was worth trying to save and I wanted to try couples counseling. This was two weeks after the breakup. No response or acknowledgment whatsoever.

        I asked my female friends about it and after reading the letter, they all to a person said that they would have at least acknowledged and thanked me for it. Just because you’re breaking up doesn’t mean you no longer owe that person courtesy and respect. I think I will post it here, it feels cathartic:

        (Ex’s name),

        I just want to say that if you feel like you are truly better off apart than together, then I respect that. You deserved to have your say, and I deserve to have mine.You made a decision that greatly affected both of us without talking it over with me first and letting me know your concerns. And you didn’t give me much of a reason as to why. You weren’t willing to share your feelings with me and didn’t want to fight to save our relationship before throwing in the towel. That HURT.

        You said that you don’t feel like you can love me the way I want to be loved or need to be loved. I don’t need to be loved. I just want your love. And throughout the course of our relationship, I know that you did love me. That day in my apartment you told me that you still did. And that being the case, let me worry about what I’m getting versus what I want. If I ever felt like you were neglecting me, I would tell you. You made it out like I was asking more of you than you can give, and that’s not the case at all. That hurt as well. You said you didn’t want me to go to weddings that I didn’t have to go to and didn’t want to go to, when I loved being your date, supporting you by your side. That hurt too. I never resented the time I got to spend with you. It was an honor, a privilege and a blessing. You also told me that when I gave you compliments, you didn’t feel like that person on the inside. I was expressing gratitude for the love I felt from you and how you made me feel on the inside. I wasn’t trying to put you up on a pedestal to fall off
        of. I said those things because they are true. That day in my apartment I saw you hurting, and as your erstwhile partner, I just want you to know that all I want is to support you and be there for you. You can tell me anything and I will not judge you or think less of you. It hurts to see you in pain and turn me away.

        You never came to me with ultimatums about things that needed to change or
        ways in which the relationship was not working. If you had I would have done
        everything in my power to fix it. You said that after almost a year of dating and plans to make a bigger commitment, you started having feelings that something was wrong and didn’t quite feel right. I didn’t sense any kind of drifting apart or ways in which you were pulling away. In retrospect I think that we both obviously needed to communicate better. We’re both such easygoing, laid-back types that nothing you ever did seemed worth making a big stink about. We never really argued, and looking back we both needed to speak up more about things that bothered us before it was too late.

        We both professed our love to one another and a desire to marry. What you
        said in my apartment sounded a lot like fear. You said you’ve never been in a
        relationship for more than a year, that you always break it off before that. You said this was the best relationship you’d ever been in, and I was everything you wanted in a man. You told me I was different from all the other guys who came before. So it’s hard to understand why this relationship has to end in the same way as the others. I know how rare it is to have what we shared together, and it doesn’t come around very often, so I don’t understand why you would be so quick to walk away. I told you that I had made plans to get a holiday job so I could buy a ring. We had gone to the jewelry convention to look at bands. It was starting to become very real, and not just something that we talked about wanting. You were in unchartered territory with a man who was different from all the ones that came before, and I can see how that might be very scary. But it doesn’t necessarily mean our relationship was doomed.

        I’m not in a rush to get married. I don’t want to get married just for the sake of being married and not being alone. I just know that I love YOU, and I want YOU in my life. The rest is just details. It didn’t have to be all or nothing. We could always tap the brakes and take things slower, and move on to the next step when we were both truly ready. You deserve someone who has your back and appreciates, accepts and loves you for who you are. I am that person.

        I am writing this because I want you to know how I feel. I believe that our love and everything we built together is worth trying to save, but it takes two people to make that commitment. I would be interested in reconciliation, but that window of opportunity will not be open forever. I have to get on with my life, with or without you. I am open to couples counseling at _________, _________, or somewhere else if you prefer. If we went through that process and you still felt the same way afterwards, then we lose nothing and walk away knowing this wasn’t meant to be. But we have a potential lifetime of happiness and companionship to gain if we work together to heal this breach. The last year of our lives has been filled with joy and love for both of us, and I don’t understand why that has to come to an end. If this is not something that you are willing to try, then I am afraid we can’t remain friends and we can’t remain in contact. At a certain point I have to move on. I believe in you and I believe in us. I love you.

        • “I don’t need to be loved. I just want your love.”

          Daniel, may I suggest a couple of things here? Based on what you wrote, please go get into therapy and show the therapist this statement.

          This mind set makes you a perfect target for a lot of personality disordered people. You are basically saying you have no needs, and you seeking it from a woman you believe is not capable of giving it to you.

          Please protect yourself and any children you might have by working through this as soon as possible. Accept you need love and learn to connect with women who are willing and able to give it. If you don’t it only gets worse. There are countless of women you can dance this dance with.

          The other thing I’d mention is she may have blocked your email address and may never have seen it. While this may seem heartless, her *not* responding to you is the very kindest thing she could do: really letting go. You need to let go. Waiting for a response from someone you think has BPD is, frankly, crazy on your part. If she is borderline there is a high chance she’ll come back and draw you in again anyway.

          • I mailed the letter through the Postal Service, so I am certain that she received it.

            What I meant by that statement of “I don’t need to be loved. I just want your love” – I wrote that two weeks after a breakup i didn’t see coming. I was trying to make the point that I had been single before and that being single was not the worst thing in the world, but that I wanted to save what we had together.

  • Yes Simon, I think you are right that on some level we have a hard time coming to terms with the fact that at best our exes were emotionally unhealthy and immature, and at worst are in the grips of mental illness. If you were to meet my ex, you might find her a little shy and reserved, but she is “high-functioning” and doesn’t come across as a crazy schizo at all. She has held down a good job and has friends who love and care about her. What is also hard is the fact that the end comes suddenly and seemingly out of the blue, and there is no closure, nor is there any way to make sense of it all. Since they are wired in a very different way, we cannot make sense when we evaluate their behavior by our own standards.

    • Daniel,

      The high-functioning thing is so difficult to deal with… Mine was the same way indeed. I know what you’re going through, but do not doubt the behaviors you have witnessed from her.

      Mine was well-liked by those around her, and at work. It only came out in intimate relationships…

      Did you notice that even the “friends who love and care about her” were kept at an arms-length away – did she not allow them to get too close?

  • FreeToBe,

    She had about seven close friends from what I could tell. “Annie” lived two hours away and she referred to her as her “on my best behavior” friend. “Annie” was a devout Christian (my ex is religious as well), but around her “on my best behavior” friend “Annie,” she said things like “I can’t use profanity or talk about certain things with her.” She wouldn’t always take this girl’s calls when we were together because she portrayed her as high maintenance and kind of a pain to deal with at times.

    “Molly” was another good friend from her wild partying past in her twenties (my ex is 31). She kept it hidden from her parents the fact that she was still friends with “Molly” since they disapproved of her. “Molly” has calmed down a lot herself and no longer makes poor life choices, but they didn’t hang out a lot. Her three best friends from high school are in LTRs. “Becca” she rarely saw and never said much of anything about. She saw “Melissa” a little more frequently and would criticize her for what she considered to be “Melissa’s” unreliability. She had another friend “Jessica” that lived in Seattle. They had some history where “Jessica” stopped talking to her for a few years after my ex started dating one of her exes. She also expressed resentment when “Jessica” came home on a vacation and made no attempt to get in touch with her.

    Her other best friend “Joanna” is from college, is 30 years old and has been divorced three times. She often alluded to Joanna’s crazy romantic history in disapproval. “Becca” was the only friend that I never heard her criticize, but they rarely hung out or spent time together.

    Her other good friend “Jody” lived about four hours away in another major city. She never really criticized “Jody,” and we even traveled to their city for the birthday party of “Jody’s” toddler, but she did express ambivalence about her friendship with “Jody,” mainly that she wanted more from my ex than she wanted to give.

    Oh, and her closest work friend “Allie” she would trash talk nonstop. She would express feelings of persecution from her coworkers, even though from what I could tell she had a position of great responsibility and did her job well.

  • Hi Free To Be and everyone,

    What are we unconscious of? What do those powerful feelings we suffer mean? Did she author those emotions and feelings or are we all living through someone else’s authorship? There is a view that some flaw in our relationship with our mother is where all of this stems from. When we reflect on our behaviour do we manifest borderline attributes as well? We meet our borderline beloved, fall deeply and she begins her push-pull strategy. But now there are 2 victims us and her. In the victime triangle there can only be 1 victim, and that honour falls to us guys. Does she then see us as potential targets as soes a shark looking for dinner? Is she constantly displaying ‘victim’ until she see’s a suitable replacement?
    I raise these questions from a place of pain, I have never missed someone so much in my life, someone who completely got under my skin and into my mind. Someone who really wasn’t anything other than a delusion and a hurtful one at that.
    My self analysis has been on and around my wish/desire/ maybe need to rescue women. A sort of addiction that stems from looking after a crazy depressed mother in my early teens( 10 to 16). The rescue blueprint is well embedded and my ex was in crisis when we met. In I went!
    The spin offs are; missing her, still seeing in my mind her room and photo’s of her folks, wondering who she is with,and lots more and this after 8 months!
    It would be comforting to know that in some time ahead I will not still be feeling the way I do.
    Best wishes and take care,
    Mike

  • Wow after reading this post … It is amazing the things she told you were almost the same thing my ex told me .. They must have a script on how to ___________ with us.

    I wonder if they have there own web site to discuss ways to Mess with us…

    Unreal …

  • Dear all,

    I have ended my relationship with my ex three weeks ago, because I couldn’t stand being with her — despite loving her deeply and making plans for the future. Our relationship started of in a great way. But somewhere during the end of the first year I noticed weird reactions, angry outbursts mostly. I used to try to figure out what it was; fall depression, age difference (she was seven years my junior), homesickness (later on during our relationship we moved somewhere else for my career opportunities), vitamin deficiency, lack of friends, whatever, just excuses to understand why she could become such as sudden devil. I get it now, there was something wrong with her. Not me, not the environment, not her parents. Her. Just her.

    I’ve had the patience of an angel with her, tried everything from helping her start a new education to endless listening to insecurities to get slammed with insults without retaliation to support to whatever else I could do to help. It didn’t help: she was sick. She couldn’t help herself.

    I’ve always felt blessed being with her, because she’s attractive, girlish, sharp, smart and clearly loved me genuinely. Yet, she could also be violently enraged, coldly black/white in reasoning, manipulative, unreasonable, critical, incapable of self-reflection and more aspects of what makes Borderline such a nasty condition to live with for partners. If she is Borderline, which I thin she is, she’s a high-functioning BPD patient; no Lindsay Lohan crazyness from her.

    What got me finally fed up was the manipulation. I’ve always wondered what people mean by manipulative women. Now I know. Playing into feelings of guilt, blaming you for fights and refusing making up (or s*x or comfort) until you accept each and all blame for every fight; fights she started over nothing. It would have been reason enough to hate her, but I don’t hate her, because I can’t and don’t want to hate her, I love her. That is, I loved her. No man can really detest manipulation for the menace it is until it has happened to him.

    There are many things I could write about the hellish s**t she put me through, but it wouldn’t matter, because everyone here already knows what I’m talking about. We’ve all been through the same.

    I’ve seen men here write letters in which they profess their love for the women they lost. That’s admirable and nice, but these men must know that if they’d return to their relationship they’d end up like me — breaking up after five years themself. Exhaustion will do that to a man. Every break-up will make you wonder about what could have been, it’s natural, but it’s also a form of self-deception; we see what we want and need to see, but wasn’t there. Sure, relationships are sometimes given up to easily, more would have been there, but the bottom-line is that something was fundamentally unsound between you. Accept it, move on.

    Just know you’re not alone and that BPD patients really can’t help themselves: they are what they are and they will not change. Their burden upon us was temporarily, they’ll be cursed with their condition until their last breath. That’s no comfort for the scorned and the rejected hearts, that’s cause for compassion.

  • Guys: I was married to borderline/narcissist for 25 years. Five years of therapy and 400 books later, I’ve put two and two together.

    Take a look at reactive attachment disorder-adult symptoms, unwanted from the womb, high stressed mothers fetus, book from townsend and cloud – hiding from love, Alice miller books – drama of the gifted child and truth will set you free.

    I swear to you these books can change your life. Begin to look at your own childhood and life from a witness/observer perspective. If you look at your life like it was someone else’s, you can see with clarity. Find an enlightened witness, someone you can talk to who has been through the he’ll and survived, not just denied the abuse or projected the problems onto someone else.

    Dysfunction attracts dysfunction and then breeds dysfuntion. Awareness can break the cycle.

    A good tree doesn’t produce evil fruit and an evil tree can’t produce good fruit. Rethink your whole childhood.

    YOU CAN FIGURE OUT WHY!!! If you don’t know how you got somewhere, how can you avoid ending up there again?

    Rebecca

  • Reading these posts and comments has basically saved me. I just ended a relationship with a woman who I believe was a borderline waif. As AkDude said, it’s like our relationship followed some script, given what I’ve recently read.

    The comment on Reactive Attachment Disorder by RJ really caught my attention. My ex has an adopted daughter from South America who was apparently diagnosed with that condition. My ex said that it’s common for infant adoptees that start-out in orphanages in poor countries. Perhaps; but it’s interesting that, maybe, my ex might have this as well and is simply reinforcing her daughter’s issues.

    Anyway, I’m going through severe withdrawal at the moment. Trying to get through it.

  • Quoting RJ – “If you look at your life like it was someone else’s, you can see with clarity.” Smart man – thank you.
    I have posts all over this site today – I never know where to place them. But I’ve had a bad day – and broke the NC rule to my everlasting shame.
    I re-opened myself to a situation which was better left alone – forever.

    But I had an enlightenment (not the 1st) she doesn’t care about me, it isn’t within the alphabet of her emotions to care about anyone but herself.
    And that’s not a criticism – it’s my observation.
    All the dis-connected texts and voice mails are about her – and they’re coming from all different angles of her personality. If I was a psychiatrist I couldn’t handle it.
    She fills the hollowness inside and the fear of being alone with lovers of any description – whoever is available at any given time.
    And this is rationalized in her mind, or forgotten – as it sometimes was, by whatever pop phrase came to her mind.
    “it is what it is…”
    “Whatever….”
    “Get over it…”

    The most strenuous thing I can say tonight is this: if you have already established NC stick to it, at all costs. Let contact be the road not taken. Survive and prosper

    • RJ…. As in Rebecca Jenise. I was married to NBPD for 25 yrs. I found this sight looking for insight into why a friend would marry a 3rd borderline…… This time a waif. He was so close to waking up from the illusions of his life, only to backslide. Be careful…… The SAME lessons in life are sent to you with increasing intensity until you learn the lessons God needs you to learn. If you look for the lesson and why you needed the lesson, you will stop focusing on her. Whatever you feed GROWS. Look at your situation from the viewpoint of learning. Then focus on seeking the answers and they will be found. I am good at figuring out how and why people get involved in relationships like these. I am surrounded at this moment by the 400 books I have read in the last several years and there are untold connections. The truth will set you free…….

  • As I sat and awaited round 2 tonight I watched Kubrick’s “Eyes wide shut”, not exactly therapeutic – but distracting.
    Reviewed this mornings texts and voice mails (calmly) and realized… I had a condensed version of our very long relationship encapsulated into perhaps 3 hours.
    From the vague to the more on point, to the ridiculous – to the ‘girlish’ cuteness to the angry b***h.
    That was therapy.
    Compared to a lot of guys on here I feel fortunate – because now I realize there never was a place for me in the relationship – I was a prop.
    She runs the gamut of emotions and I am allowed to have none.
    I never was.
    I was incidental to her life.
    As I am finding my relationship with my boys repaired – they still think I’m an idiot – but they love me nevertheless, I am thinking more and more of the hollowness at the center of her life.
    It simply must be unthinkable to have nothing – not even a personality.
    I hope a lot of ongoing work in the psychiatric field yields some results in the coming years to help these people.
    While destroying my life she inadvertently brought me sobriety – and I’m not smug about that (a bourbon may be 5 minutes away) – but I am thankful that I saw the light.
    I pray for us all (and I’m a very non-religious) guy.

  • Daniel, I feel for you mate because I’ve been there.

    You were being too nice to her in the letter. My ex had me treating her like I was walking on egg shells most of the time because you are so afraid after a while that they are going to vanish again.

    That is not a relationship based on trust as you know.

    I also felt for you because you had so much to say to her and you were never given the chance. Again, I have been there. Whatever you did say and regardless of how well you treated her would not be understood the way in which you would like her to understand it. Therein lies the sadness of relationship or associations with BPD. The emotional and mental language is different for them.

    My ex told me once that she hated men. But then it was something else next week. I was overly affectionate or didn’t respect her. She would always find a reason and none of it was on my radar. Generally as people, we know when we
    have done something wrong and her reasons used to take me by surprise all the time until I started trying to predict them. Then, she had me. She wanted to turn me into the silent, respectful, compliant “whatever” that she wanted. But then as soon as I became perfect, she would run the other way. There was no logic.

    I can only imagine what she is doing now. Probably playing a couple of guys off against each other or back at church, pretending to be a good little girl. Or with some poor guy who is copping it for turning up at her house without calling ahead first. She was such a control freak and you could never tell her that this was unusual, she just didn’t compute or didn’t want to.

    I’m at a point where if I want to do a puzzle, I’ll buy the newspaper and do the crosswords.

    • Yes,
      My wonderful mind blasting BPD always told me-He was walking on eggshells w/ me. They are very inconsistent people, so he was alwsys canceling plans w/ us. I got mad once, since I have children I have to situate, ever since that 1 time I got upset (He walked on eggshells) and told all his friends that. ALL the abuse I took from him and I’m the BAD person in the relationship. I love that. I’m walking around distraught and he’s sleeping like a baby….

  • There is no fear in love; instead, perfect love drives out fear, because fear involves punishment. So the one who fears has not reached perfection in love (has not been loved). 

    Love is patient;  love is kind. Love does not envy;  is not boastful; is not conceited;  does not act improperly; is not selfish; is not provoked; does not keep a record of wrongs; finds no joy in unrighteousness, but rejoices in the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
    Love never ends.

    Real love never goes away. Why? It is based on who we are and not on what we do. But if we never got to know who we ourselves are, how can we share this with someone else? But, we can share this unknowingness of ourselves with someone else who is unknown to themselves. This is how like attracts like. 

    Tell me if you agree……. She tried to secure love by controlling, manipulating the people and things around her. She had to have her way and you gave in to make her happy……. An ugly way to say the same thing, Manage her behavior?? Is this not just a prettier version of manipulating someone, even if for the good of the relationship? (wait, it gets better).  We try to secure love by controlling and manipulating OURSELVES. We don’t have to have our way ever if it means keeping up the pretenses of the relationship. But did you hear that…… The pretenses of the relationship.  Was the relationship REAL? Or was is acting? Living in the moment means that at any given moment of your life, you can share whatever you are feeling the moment the emotion hits you. If you had to keep things to yourself, you are pretending to be someone you are not. That is ACTING. As in, your life is a performance. Like acting a part. As long as you both act accordingly, the show goes on.

    Is it healthy to maintain something that isn’t real? She pretends to be a certain way until a crack in the exterior (veneer) occurs and the “real” person starts to emerge. She hides the real person inside because she doesn’t like that person inside. But if we are controlling and manipulating ourselves, aren’t we hiding the real person inside, pretending to be whoever she would like you to be? Perhaps because you’ve never been given an opportunity to get to figure out who you are? 

    Intimacy…….. Broken down becomes…. IN TO ME SEE……… When we allow ourselves to truly know ourselves and truly love who we are on the inside, we will attract and recognize someone who loves us for who we really are inside.

    An analogy…….. We are like houseplants. We take in carbon dioxide and produce oxygen. We have no wants, needs, or desires. We demonstrate this by giving in to her will in all things. We have a function to fulfill. A role to play. As long as we do what we are supposed to do, everything is fine. But when we start realizing that our needs aren’t being met, we start pushing her to do something for us. We realize that from the beginning, we thought it was all about her. Making her happy, loving her, caring for her. Question becomes: why are we so surprised when she too acts like it’s all about her? 

    We were each made to be perfectly who God made us to be. And when we try to become someone else in order to please another, we have made an idol out of that person, because like God, they have the ability to change who we are, and not for the better.

  • it’s interesting reading these posts as I have recently come out of a relationship with a guy I suspect has BPD. I’ve been reluctant to “label” him, and at times when I have been reading up about the condition I have wondered if I have signs of it myself. Looking back I can see many times I have behaved out of character because I have felt so stressed, so confused, and so diminished I have been fighting to maintain or re-establish a sense of myself. Does that make any sense? It’s as if I had become so focused on him and his distress I had almost disappeared.

    I’m embarrassed to have tolerated what I did for so long, and I feel ashamed. What balanced that for me was an intimacy and acceptance I don’t think I have ever experienced with anyone else at that level, and the sense that his problems would be resolved and we could have that again.

    In the end our ending came because I tried to get some of my needs met, and articulated them to him as calmly and assertively as I could. He reacted to that by accusing me of over reacting, telling him he was not good enough and trying to drag him down. He said he could not listen to me anymore, and so he was not going to – and hung up and since then I have had no contact, and can make no contact as he has blocked me on his phone / email etc. Minutes before he had been promising me the earth and begging for more time to turn things around.

    I can’t describe how I feel. I definitely feel guilt and I don’t know why as rationally I don’t know what I could have done differently other than develop a tolerance level that would have put me permanently out the picture, and then that is no relationship to be in – to lose yourself to prop up another. I’m struggling with feelings of low self worth after feeling so abruptly discarded. And I’m struggling with feelings for him still, and feeling that all those things he said he felt for me have suddenly evaporated and left hate and negativity in their wake. I’m trying to tell myself that is “splitting” but it’s very hard to depersonalise it.

    I’ve been for some counselling and recognise that as a child I learnt to ignore my own needs and disappear in order to not add additional pressure in to an already difficult situation at home. That is what I have done again, put myself to one side while he has had so many issues and tried to support him. The challenge I think is putting myself on an equal footing to future partners when at this minute I feel reduced to nothing in his eyes when I know I was deserving of much better treatment and respect on account of how I treated him. I guess that I let myself down by not giving myself those things, a mistake I have promised myself I won’t make again.

  • To Daniel and Simon in particular and to everyone on this blog, I feel your pain greatly—as all I have to do is feel mine to empathize with you. My suspected BPD wife walked out on me and my son–her step son on May 1st. We were married for one year. She never talked to or saw my son after May 1st—his First communion. She abandoned us and just left. We did not talk or see each other for 4 weeks. She came home and had s*x with me and then I did not see her for two months or even talk with her. Sparing you tons of details that are consistent with the waif or quiet borderline type, I will share that I have been in absolute misery over this. I had no closure and she would not talk with me. I did tell her that I filed for divorce and asked her to move out and put her stuff in the garage. That is something I told her I would do after 60 days if I did not hear from her. It feels good to be true to my word and brave enough to take things in that direction. Never let people walk on you. All the pain I experience comes from my greatest assett which is also my greatest weekness here: my sentimentality. My priest showed me this light. We are all sentimental guys, that is why the BPD chose us! A warm and comfortably people pleaser with a good and honest value system. It is this sentimentality which keeps us going back to the good times and remembering the s*x, their smiling happy faces, and their intelligence. We need to in effect “split”them as they have us and remember the bad sides. Mine was selfish, manipulative, emotionally abusve to me–although she claimed the contrary of me. She went on the distortion campaign hard core and painted me black. She blamed me for every little thing wrong in her life and projected all of her identity issues, lack of friends, etc etc.. on me. She said I was controlling. Projection–she would not let me join a soaftball league or teach my son’s catechism. She said I was covertly aggressive. Projection–she showed up to get her things with her family and never let me know they were comming. She enjoyed the element of surprise. She wore the glimmering garnet and silver earings I gave her for Christmas. I am sure she could have worn a thousand other pairs, but consciously decided on those. That is covert aggression on her part.

    I also recall the guilt I would feel over not being able to please her, the shame in not providing a warm happy household for her and letting her feel emotionally abused…What! She always fel beat up by an 8 yr old—my son. She was a34 year old teacher and should be bale to handle this—so I thought. She always said, you are a great provider but ” I need emotional things too not just the physical.” She was a bottomless well of emotional need and as many a text has articulated they have these emotional feelings on their own and then back them up into facts like an 18 wheeler backing into a transfer station and just dump everything on you. I f it feels bad to her its all our fault. We are always to blame. The manipulation of family however made them think I was emotionally abusing their daughter. She even said she was so afraid of me that she could not talk with me on the phone. If she was so upset and dysregulated it had to be my fault right? I must have been the cause of all of this. Emotional reasoning is very powerful and the bigger the lie coming from a woman the more believable it is—especially when they are in distress and tears or exasperated. Angela’s feelings mushroomed and flowered out like a nuclear bomb on acid. They had NOTHING to do with me! I have been in the twilight zone.

    What saves me? How do I press on and get through this? I d have a beautiful 8 year old boy to raise and protect. I have been a single dad for many years so I did think Angela was the one. I am deeply disappointed and feel like I have had a limb amputated. What else saves me? I know she is ill and compassion and forgiveness will help to let go of the pain and anguish we feel. That sort of understanding is the only closure we can get! Also, strictly observe the no contact rule. They will ignore you anyway so it almost seems as though they are observing the no contact rule. But, in the end, they cannot stand it! They will cycle through their emotions and have a desire to reach you. My soon to be ex recently emailed me a poland springs water bill which I have been on top of. It is just a confirmation of the order. It was very unnecessary for her to send it to me. But it has been about a month of no contact and I think that she wanted to bait me with an email so I would respond. Or she just wanted to feel like there was contact. I will never reach out to her ever again. I have already done as Simon and Daniel have and written hand written letters, sent passionate loving emials, appealed to her morality and sense of human decency, recaled our vows etc… it does not make sense and just remember that no normal emotionally mature woman behaves this way. The narcisissm that prevents her from empathizing and accepting blame is what is so annoying and troubling to me. That same narcisissm is what makes her want to hear from us. We are only offering narcissisitic supply by pouring our hearts out to them. They just share it with family and laugh anyway. I strongly urge all of us to ignore and have no contact. It will be bothersome to them as the core wound of abandonement issues surface and they feel rejection again.
    I am so glad I filed for divorce and asked her to move out. Remember how we were hurt and treated. “you deserve better” is what everyone tells me. “your son deserves better”. I know this to be true and we must triumph here and survive. They are like the blob–the more we throw at them the bigger they get. No more attention is the way to go.

  • RJ you are right on the “mark” to say that to come to terms you need to analyze and self examine the part you were forced to “play” in the relationship. I now feel she pulled the tail of the sleeping non-BPD male dragon. I reluctant to use the word complicit but there are childhood reasons to the pull of BPD females on myself, so in a way I was not immunized to this condition from my research thus far, correct me if you feel I have missed the “mark”. I have stepped outside myself to look in and found some of the source for my reactions to being with her. I have taken it as far as I can, now I need professional guide to bring me to a healthy conclusion. I am suggesting fellow travelers to start their quest by visiting http://www.GettinBetter.com

    • Eddy, long time but I was just reading this site again and saw your remarks. And YES, I think gettinbetter.com is one of the best sites on the internet. I have discovered that my mother is BPD, my dad the doormat. Their parents were same essential combo. My ex were just another round of the same. I didn’t know that his normal behavior was emotionally abusive for nearly fifteen years. His crazy behavior was spaced out so I never thought about it collectively. And I was very good at being compliant, thanks Mom! But when I finally started wanting some of my needs met, his behavior stepped up a couple notches until I noticed I felt like “I” was being crushed. Totally fed up, I told him that inappropriate behavior resulted in a time out. (We have 4 kids.) I would no longer “make ” myself have s*x with him to make him “nice” and treat me better. He would have to treat me nice and act loving in order to make me “want” to have s*x with him. I never knew that I was allowing myself to be sexually abused, as well. Guess what? He couldn’t do it. Five minutes of nice and he’d be back to his old self. He made me go to therapy to get “fixed”. Ha! After two hours of talking, my therapist suggested that I form an exit strategy and get out. Save cash and read a couple BPD/NPD books and get out.
      I am still Christian, but would consider myself New Age Spiritualist. I read all religions, Buddhism, Sufism, etc. I live by “A Course in Miracles”, a book and thought system as well. I see now that my life is perfect because it was the path I chose to awaken to ME. My true self and God within me. I am grateful to my ex and my mother, and every one and every thing that has ever happened in my life. Nothing happened TO me. It all happened FOR me. I have always had an internal struggle to be who I’m supposed to be. I just never knew I was supposed to be listening only to myself, to my inner knowingness, to God. Even Christianity teaches that the Holy Spirit is within us.
      Borderline Mothers by Christine Lawson will blow your mind. It will sound like she was witnessing your life, your childhood.
      And figuring out your MBTI personality type is key. Every one of us is NF. That’s iNtuitive Feeler. And we were all married to or dated ISTPs.
      My most important philosophy: If you don’t know exactly how you got somewhere, how can you avoid showing up there again???
      We can all say never again but we do find them again. Over and over. Maybe not as bad, but sometimes even worse, depending on our own personal growth. Have we learned the lesson the universe so lovingly provided? The one our inner guide chose for our own awakening to ourselves?

      • Rj,

        After my first divorce at age 25 I didn’t do any “cause” searching, however after the phase and haze of self-medicating I just knew I needed a few years of not getting involve. All through my child life my father had major bouts with depression; he would silently internalize into himself with his childhood trauma; I love my dad, as a child I didn’t understand and as an adolescent/young teen was confuse with silent anger. I would avoid him until daddy would emerge after countless months into “normal” living. It wasn’t till a quarter century had laps that I was able to define his life scrip “I’m not worthy”. He was emotionally abused as a child from birth. This emotionally coming and going was the opening act for the waif type female. I manage to avoid this lure in other women by gut level instinct, however instinct is intangible and not realizing I needed to dig deeper doesn’t prepare one for an undiagnosed BPD. A quarter century later coming out of a twenty year marriage (she wasn’t BPD, we just feel out of love), I once again took a time out. This time I went on religious guest to no avail; the third floor Man and his son eluded me no matter how much I explore and read. Five years later coming back from an overseas position my gut shield was futile to detect Pandora box in front of me. Six major times in a six year relationship for me affiliation for her the waif she did her shtick, there were countless sub acts too. Jack went up the hill with Jill’s and dip his “bucket”, however from that jaunt Jack was manipulated (Yoda level) to refill from his well for ever more! She was a one legged white swan, gliding on a pictures lake all the while paddling like hell under the surface.
        This time with debris in my head, back by a college degree (I acquired as a man), I researched diligently. I found God, and just about all the why fors & there fors for lack of better words. Like you I am very informed and can tranquilly discuses both sides of the fence, well almost calmly. I don’t know about you however, I have come to realize that there are only two types of people who could share an empathy / knowledgeable conversation on this subject where both can cohabitate a room intellectually.

        a) A mental professional who has at least 10 years specialize experience in this BPD field.
        b) One who has our non-BPD experience and industriously research and takes ownership.

  • It has been the most unreal 3 years of my life. It started when I met this one 35 year old(at the time 32) hottie with 3 kids from three different dads.

    I ignored many red flags because the s*x was out of this world. Narcissistic to the max.3 times a night and days at least once. Oh, I am 62 now. After moving in and out of her home when I sold mine for 9 times in 2 years, the end was inevitable. She treated me like crap one moment and acted out the rest. And was always talking to other men and texting.

    I have a two year old son now and I am blessed. His mom is an emotionless BPD liar, has assaulted me 3 times and I went to jail for two. She went on the third one because of a witness. This girl will lye about everything and be promiscuous at the same time. One never knows when to make things right because that would require emotion, guilt, conscience and love. She could do nothing in any category establishing in my mind she is beyond repair. Themoreyou try to love, the further they push away.

    I have since moved to a friend’s home and for the first month she tried to get me back.

    All of my professional contacts have said no way. No contact.

    Turns out one of her kids had a big brother come into his life, and now the mom has caught him in her net. He is the next victim. And he is 60.

    Men, take heed. Beauty is only as deep as the character in the mold.

    Go to gettinbetter.com and do your homework. Do not stay around as this is the most unhealthy scenario you will incur in life.

    If they cannot laugh, answer yes or no questions, and will not accept responsibility for their actions, GET OUT NOW!!!

    YOU HAVE 90 DAYS TO ESCAPE BEFORE THE DOOR CLOSES ON FREEDOM. WHEN THERE IS MORE S*X AND LESS COMMUNICATION, TAKE HEED.

  • In the faint hope that my post will be allowed to remain (unlikely given that three entries have been removed for reasons I cannot possibly fathom), one of the reasons we go back to our borderline partner is because we have failed to dismantle our own masochism, strong words you might think but it stands to reason that even after months if not years of abuse we went back for more punishment surely tells us that at some deep level we also believe we are unlovable and don’t deserve to be with a healthy partner? I had months of therapy after splitting with my ex, I confronted many issues and one of them that stood out like a shining beacon was my masochistic tendencies, I became addicted to the dramas, the ups and the downs and of course the make up s*x, which is a powerful lure for non-borderlines. It’s all very well heaping blame on to our BDP partners but we MUST look at ourselves because we are not completely blameless, people can only treat you badly if you allow them, the fact is we were enablers. Borderlines are ill, they cannot help themselves, it is pathological behaviour.

  • I am doing something that down deep I know it’s no good for me; I wondering if anyone is or has experiencing this behavior? I feel initially it’s for the brotherhood of men motivated by my caring nature, however it’s stopping me from moving on. Whenever I have a chance encounter I introduce the subject of BPD to educate others of the epidemic. I want to help others to define their present/past troubled relationships, or forewarn father, mothers, and single people. I’ve tried to contain this behavior, however it’s been difficult.

  • Hi all,
    Thanks for all the insightful posts, it really helps to read about others experiences, and understand what happened to you.
    I am female, and spent 3 years with a BP male, at the time we met, (in early 2010) I was almost 42 and he almost 43. He had been out of work two years, and his last serious relationship had been 10 years before.
    From what he told me about himself, (which I suspect was more lies as I later found out more truths) he had been having casual stuff all over the place, but then saying he wasn’t like that?? Go figure??
    A lot of these ‘female friends’ were still ringing him the whole time he was with me, whilst I was subjected to daily abuse for being a ‘cheating lying w***e and street scum’.
    Me? I had just come out of a relationship with a major control freak, that was also a serial cheater/liar, he left me with an empty house, (taking my stuff as well!!) and already had another woman to run to before he took off, (buying himself another fancy car when he already had one, to boot).
    During that two year union, I had lost respect for him ages before, with each and every lie he would omit, and then own up to lying about, (after we argued over each of them!!).
    God, it was the most frustrating two years of my life!! My mistake? Believing his lies, and even bothering to give him the benefit of the doubt every time he did. Worse still, arguing and cursing out of sheer frustration!!
    He called me abusive!! HUH!!
    My answer? lying and cheating and financial abuse speak for themselves. Both of us need to change, not just me!!
    But no, it was me with the problem, there was absolutely nothing wrong with him, or what he was doing!!
    The classic Narcissist..
    After he left, I was pretty vulnerable, for several months. I also felt the need to find love, or comfort, and stupidly thought that having a fling might make me feel alive again, after feeling dead for so long.
    So i had a casual fling, and no, of course it didn’t help.
    Then months later, I met BP, we were friends for several months, whilst he couch surfed at my place. ‘Between jobs and accommodation’ he said. Sounded plausible at the time, given he had a degree and was in the ‘mining industry’ which meant a lot of working away on remote sites.
    He started demanding a lot of my spare time, when I wasn’t at work, and I started becoming attracted to him. I had to tell him in the end, and when I did, he rejected me.
    So, I told him that it might be best if he didn’t ask to spend so much of my time with me, so as not to ruin our friendship, and given I was developing feelings for him, (against my better judgement) I felt it best.
    Then, low and behold, he does an about turn, and admits to having very deep feelings for me, but he would not be interested in just something ‘casual’.
    So I asked if he meant he would like to try a relationship? and he then tried to put me off having one with him!! Confused???
    So, we sat down like two adults and discussed our options, feelings. We decided to give it a go.
    He suggested we take an STD test, (when arrangeable) before we had full blown s*x. Wow, I was impressed.
    We did muck around a bit before that, and he went all out to impress, (for hours!!).
    I had never had that level of attention/admiration before in my life, never had someone that willing to please as a lover. Needless to say, I became more hooked. And that’s when the trouble started, and it blew me for a six…
    Rages/Projections/Denigrations/Violence/severe verbal abuse/threats/ every three days. Over that time, (two years he stayed at my house) I was dumped every week, and then he would call up apologetic, admitting he needed help, referring me to his parents for support.
    They would get on the phone, and agree with what he said, and if he was acting out here, they would tell him to stop it, or come home.
    Several times he tried to take my life, threatened others I was close to, financially abused me, and all other forms of abuse were present in some shape or form.
    Yet each time, he would call and sound soooo sincere, and want to come back and see me within days!!
    Sometimes he would arrive, and start another fight!!
    God, it was hell.

    • Robyn, I feel for you. My not yet ex was your BPs twin!!! I ended up getting a protection order and he ended up arrested for Attempted Aggravated Murder, Menacing by Stalking, Felony Breach of Protection, etc. Ten months later (all in jail) he pled guilty to the Menacing and Breach of Protection. The courts arranged for the Army to allow him back on active duty to get mental treatment. He was a Major with 3 war tours. So his B/NPD behavior was homicidal. BUT, BPD/NPD men and women have both been known to be homicidal, especially the BPD witch and queen. But the BPD waif and hermit are sometimes suicidal. Read all you can and figure out WHY!!! You have been involved with these men FOR A REASON! Look at your childhood. It all stems from there. Love is “unshakable safety”. If you never had that, you’ve been looking to recreate your childhood so you can finally feel loved by the person for whom you could never be good enough. In psychology, it’s called the repetition compulsion. Real happiness occurs when you love yourself. Only then will the universe supply you with someone who truly loves them self and you’ll live in peace and acceptance and love and total knowingness of your selves and each other. Good luck.

  • This site is really great, sincerely. Along with all the other info on the internet it has really began to help me understand and [somewhat] slowly get over what i just experienced. One of the biggest problems (yes, there was actually one big one – Communication) was the fact my exBPD girlfriend would constantly initiate text wars with me. WHOLE ENTIRE emotional blowout fights over text? And time and time again I would ask her to relax and to call me. But she wouldn’t – EVER! I’d call her and she would not answer the phone but more texts would roll in like a slot machine. Then it was back to texting because little did i know i was systematically being conditioned to placate her disease so, back to text messaging it was. Now, I’m a 45 year old man and she is 35?? Wasn’t this just a bit of a childish process I began to think. Super long winded divisive text message fights? It really began to feel to lower the general IQ between two people that are capable and intelligent enough to have an adult discussion about our feelings. Or so I thought anyway in the beginning. Oh, but the kicker here folks? She has her Masters in Social work?!! She’s a Social worker — Go figure.

    We (healthy minded adults) all know how communication is one of the most important parts of a relationship. This is certainly true – along with healthy conflict management skills. Conflict is inevitable in any long term relationship. Emotionally mature people can discus their feelings openly within the forum of love that each shares for each other when such conflict arises. ALWAYS working towards a resolve. Not my ex with BPD. Talking to her about her feelings only brought on more frustration and she would shut down. She would say I would ‘lecture her’. Or that I was ‘putting her on the spot’ Jeez, I’m sorry, i just want to be happy and not carry around the weight of feeling like S*&t all the time. Perhaps I thought you might want to feel better about ‘us’ too? Yeah, we would find a happy medium. Mostly, me apologizing and giving into her sad, lonely, despondant ways. And the peace was always short-lived. And back to text message fights we’d go.

    By the time we broke up.. and if when i say broke up i mean I got no Closure, then yeah I guess we broke up. The communication was nonexistent. She constantly accused me of looking at other women and never trusted me. We began fighting more over email now too. Mainly because our first ever ‘fight’ was so ridiculous that i was perhaps a bit over passionate when talking to her, but never mean guys. Just frustration. After that she would NOT talk to me because she would ‘get anxious’. Any conflict after that was through text and email ONLY. No close face to face discussions where tone of your voices, physical and eye contact really make all the difference during fights. She even began to project onto me that I was mad over text and would stop the conversation until I cooled down. When honestly, I was so calm on the other end of the phone. Without even knowing what was going on, i was conditioned now to stay calm. Always calm.. as any good emotional punching bag should be – right?

    The odd part of my individual experience is — I have most of the relationship on record; text and emails. And, i was so lucid during which with my responses. Always conveying to her time and time again how unhealthy all this is, and its not gonna end well, we need to unify and that I love her so much and want to try and get this relationship to a better place so we can flourish and have longevity. Always stressing the word “US”.. and all she would say in response is how bad I was making her feel; how horrible a person she’s become while dating me. But never once had any real logic behind as to why. There was never any mention nor even a glimpse into consideration of the pain I was experiencing. No empathy or insight to my struggles at all. Never once did she mentioned the word “US”… It was always about her.

    So now. Do I at times obsess about what she’s doing, who she is with and how she is? Well yes, of course because I spent an entire year of my life being programmed do so. But, now along with the rest of you I too begin my journey to deprogram; heal and understand more about who I am and what I need [not her] so I won’t make the same mistake ever again. Onward & Upwards.

    Godspeed.

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